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Orthodox Church Culpability & Clerical Sex Abuser Transfers

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What is wrong with ROCOR? (self.exorthodox)

submitted 17 days ago by OldTruthYeller

I discovered this audio file on the Matthew Williams website a while ago: http://rocorabuse.org/admission.m4a

Now it's publicly available on the website: https://rocorabuse.org/#hyperplayer

Apparently ROCOR has had this recording for months and still won't act. You can see here that Williams was suspended and STILL hasn't been defrocked, even with evidence.

What is ROCOR thinking? Have they learned nothing from the Catholic Church?

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[–]lazzyc13 27 points28 points29 points 17 days ago (22 children)

Insane people. Completely insane they haven’t done anything. They also have priests who’ve been caught trying to cover this up for Williams just so ya all know. Pardon my French but it’s a completely fucked up situation that needs to be dealt with.

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[–]OldTruthYeller[S] 17 points18 points19 points 17 days ago (3 children)

Who is covering for him? I am convinced that naming and shaming is the only way to go. I'm horrified that Metropolitan Hilarion was protecting this pedophile.

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[–]lazzyc13 15 points16 points17 points 17 days ago (0 children)

Fr. Mark Mancuso and Fr. Serge Kotar among others.

https://rocorabuse.org/

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[–]gwlevits2022 -5 points-4 points-3 points 16 days ago (1 child)

He wasn’t. Stop your slander. Seriously. You have to answer to Christ for this. Stop.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (0 children)

Sure sounds like he was

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[–]gwlevits2022 -5 points-4 points-3 points 16 days ago (17 children)

No one was covering for him.

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[–]lazzyc13 4 points5 points6 points 16 days ago (1 child)

They should be able to prove that then. And the evidences I’ve seen don’t support that claim. I wish it was true that they didn’t sit on this, obfuscate stuff, and more. But I have it on good authority within the parish that lot of ridiculous things went on with the priests they sent to do some investigation.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 4 points5 points6 points 16 days ago (14 children)

Don't you work for the FFA, and aren't you clergy? How are you a trustworthy source?

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[–]gwlevits2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 16 days ago (13 children)

I work for both the FFA and the Eastern American Diocese.

You don’t owe me your trust, but I’ve been working on this case partially myself, including with Fr. Mark, and I can assure you he is horrified and has been working extremely hard to help the parish in Blountville recover.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 7 points8 points9 points 16 days ago* (12 children)

Why did Fr. Mark tell a parishioner in Charlotte that he didn't believe anything he heard in Blountville? Why have FMW's accusers been banned from their parish? Why is he allowed to stay with a parish council member and bake prosphora? Why is there a 3 month gap between Nicholas being informed and ANY action being taken? Why did Fr. Nicholas Kotar tell the victims that they should pray more and move on? Why did Metropolitan Nicholas instruct Matushka Elizabeth to reconcile with a man who molested her daughters?

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[–]gwlevits2022 -3 points-2 points-1 points 16 days ago (11 children)

Depends what the things are that he heard. I didn’t see the thing you’re referring to.

The banning from the parish was not directly related to the accusations, but because of their disruptive behavior afterward. The “accusers” are the Williams family members, and I think it’s fair to say that none of them should be going there anymore regardless, for their own good and that of the community at large.

Fr. Matthew may be staying with a parish council member (as is their right to house him if they choose), but he is not at the church, nor is he permitted to be.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 6 points7 points8 points 16 days ago* (9 children)

So it's OK for an investigator to talk about his opinion of victim testimony to random other people?

Why is "accusers" in scare quotes? Are you saying that punitive action towards victims is ROCOR policy? Maybe that should be in the reporting guidelines. Why won't you answer the questions about the malfeasance of your bosses? In what universe is the correct response to an allegation of child molestation "we don't believe you, oh wait now we do, get out of this church you liar"? How is this encouraging anyone else to report sexual abuse when they see how others who report are treated?

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[–]gwlevits2022 -3 points-2 points-1 points 16 days ago (8 children)

They’re not scare quotes, they’re just quotes, because that’s the word you used, but it’s important to note that this is all within a single family. That’s crucial information. It’s not like random people came forward, and they were penalized by being kicked out of the community.

It’s not punitive at all. “This is not the best place for you to continue to be for your spiritual wellbeing” is not a critical statement. It also is not good for the community at large, as I noted.

Your characterization of what is happening is completely wrong.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 5 points6 points7 points 16 days ago (7 children)

What about the other woman who alleged abuse by FMW? She is no longer allowed to clean the church.

> It’s not punitive at all.

Citation needed. I think it's a response to being called out for inaction, hoping that it will go away.

> Your characterization of what is happening is completely wrong.

https://rocorabuse.org/response.jpeg

What is this, exactly? "There is always a chance to look forward and mutually build a strong family", in response to allegations of child molestation. Is this the position of the ROCOR synod?

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[–]Banff1999 0 points1 point2 points 16 days ago (0 children)

This was never taken to court. What is the point of repeating unproven statements. The most important issue is that the victim or her mother did not contact the police. u/bluthscottgeorge

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[–]gwlevits2022 -5 points-4 points-3 points 16 days ago (5 children)

“Clean the church” means having a key and access to the church at all hours, which she was asked to relinquish. This is a separate case of someone demanding access to church property and simply being told “no.” Conflating it with accusations is wrong.

The contents of the original letter aren’t available, so it’s conjecture what Metropolitan Nicholas is actually replying to.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children)

What should the accusers have done to avoid a ban?

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[–]taterfiend 17 points18 points19 points 17 days ago (3 children)

Have they learned nothing from the Catholic Church?

Even the Catholic Church hasn't learned much from the Catholic Church lol. Many stories of coverups to this day, even after the scandal went mainstream. Neither have the Anglicans or the SBC evidently.

I'm soured on these mega institutional organizations these days. Christianity is beautiful, but institutional religion is a pipeline to institutional phariseeism. And that is something that hasn't changed from the days of Jesus's own preaching.

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[–]Virtual-Celery8814 8 points9 points10 points 17 days ago (0 children)

Same. I love Christianity and its message, but I can't stand the institutional Church

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[–]Due_Goal_111 5 points6 points7 points 16 days ago (1 child)

Yep, the new Pope was involved in sheltering a known abuser, allowing him to live on church property very close to a school.

Either the Cardinals don't care, or they couldn't find anybody who was clean. I don't know what's worse.

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[–]taterfiend 1 point2 points3 points 16 days ago (0 children)

These degens are loyal to the man made institution always over and above Christ

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[–]TheMadBaronRvUS 29 points30 points31 points 17 days ago (0 children)

ROCOR is what happens when ethnocentrism meets Pharisaism.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 10 points11 points12 points 17 days ago (0 children)

That's 100% the voice of Matthew Williams, FWIW.

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[–]Ornery_Economy_6592 10 points11 points12 points 17 days ago (1 child)

Has there been any example of the Orthodox Church defrocking a priest for sexual abuse before the final sentence of the court system? Proving that the reason to defrock is scandal and not the action itself.

There is the example of the bishop in Canada (OCA I think) who only got dedrocked after serving his prison sentence.

Or the recently sentenced bishop in Romania where the Synod decided not to defrock him since he already asked to retire when the scandal came to light.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 8 points9 points10 points 17 days ago (44 children)

At the end of the audio clip even this pedophile says "how can he (Met Hilarious) let me keep serving?"

Yes, how?

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[–]ifuckedyourdaddytoo 8 points9 points10 points 16 days ago (0 children)

Classic narcissist. His actions are someone else's fault.

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[–]gwlevits2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 16 days ago (42 children)

Yes because he spoke about his “crisis of faith.” It has nothing to do with Metropolitan Hilarion knowing about the abuse, which he almost certainly didn’t.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 16 days ago (27 children)

"almost"

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[–]Careless-Fault9284 5 points6 points7 points 16 days ago (25 children)

It sure would be funny if Metropolitan Hilarion was Fr. Matthew's spiritual father.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 1 point2 points3 points 16 days ago (24 children)

tragically funny

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[–]Careless-Fault9284 0 points1 point2 points 16 days ago (23 children)

So there's no ambiguity: Hilarion was the spiritual father of Matthew Williams until his death. To claim he didn't know about this abuse would be laughable.

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[–]gwlevits2022 -5 points-4 points-3 points 16 days ago (22 children)

Why would it be laughable? You are assuming that Fr. Matthew confessed any of this.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 3 points4 points5 points 16 days ago (21 children)

Are you in on this whole thing? Your defense of a situation wherein many clergy members were privy to these crimes committed by matthew is almost exactly the same as the clergy in question (or laity, or whoever). Your comments are very suspicious in light of all the information that has been divulged. homeboy is/was/will be IN JAIL FOR PEDOPHILIA (among other crimes, it seems). I respect you as a person, I am not trying to attack you, just confusing (although perhaps confusion and distraction is what you're seeking to generate).

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[–]gwlevits2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 15 days ago (20 children)

If he is convicted, he absolutely should go to jail. No doubt about it. I’m not defending his actions, nor would I ever.

All I am doing here is defending the actions taken by the hierarchy, and most especially I am challenging the horrible assertion that Metropolitan Hilarion of blessed memory knew about it.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (0 children)

So the delay from September to December was appropriate? Telling the mother to reconcile with the father whose actions you would never defend is good?

Assume for a moment that Hilarion did know. What then? He was a complete pushover who left horrible messes for his successor to clean up. What's one more mess?

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (17 children)

You said "IF he is convicted" and ¹"I'm not defending his ACTIONS, nor would I ever". If you're not defending his actions, you must agree that pedophilia and child abuse is beyond wrong and that Matt is guilty. It almost sounds like you'd be relieved if this all blew over and bro was back to his "priestly duties" and NOT convicted.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 1 point2 points3 points 15 days ago (0 children)

https://rocorabuse.org/he-really-knew.m4a

Almost lol

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[–]SubstantialFish34 1 point2 points3 points 16 days ago (13 children)

Hilarion was FMW's spiritual father.

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[–]gwlevits2022 -5 points-4 points-3 points 16 days ago (12 children)

And?

You’re assuming he confessed to molesting his daughters, as opposed to something much more vague like “struggling with lustful thoughts and actions” or something like that.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (0 children)

https://rocorabuse.org/he-really-knew.m4a

It doesn't seem vague to me

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[–]SubstantialFish34 1 point2 points3 points 16 days ago (10 children)

Then why would he be confused that Hilarion allowed him to continue serving?

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[–]gwlevits2022 -1 points0 points1 point 16 days ago (9 children)

Are you serious? Read my reply three comments up, or listen to the audio again. He specifically said he discussed a crisis of faith.

If I were a bishop, I would probably at least temporarily suspend a priest who confessed struggling with belief in God.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 2 points3 points4 points 16 days ago (7 children)

Let's look at the transcript:

Which—and most of my indiscretions were just stupid and not really impacting anybody except me spiritually, which then impacts the whole family, right? but um But but they were certainly happening and they were extremely damaging. So by by 2012, I had a very numb conscience. But all the same, when that temptation came, and I acted on it, it did shock me, in a major way. Unfortunately, not in a way that got rid of it. So, it's an absolutely abhorrent thing. And so I understand when someone says, "You're vile, you're evil." I understand that.

And I actually had a crisis of faith of my own at some point, maybe in the mid...2016. Then I started to think, How? If the Metropolitan, Hilarion... But it didn't jive with the Metropolitan Hilarion I knew also, so it was this like disconnect, like if he's the saintly Bishop that I know him to be... how can he let me keep serving?

Seems to me like that crisis of faith stems directly from his own belief that he is evil for acting on these temptations. I get the impression that Hilarion knew what happened, which led to that confusion about how he can keep serving.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 14 days ago (0 children)

Exactly

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[–]gwlevits2022 -1 points0 points1 point 15 days ago (5 children)

OK, well I don’t get that impression at all, and that’s definitely not what the audio says.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 3 points4 points5 points 15 days ago (0 children)

Yes, it's exactly want he says in the audio, he literally conflates the two

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 14 days ago (2 children)

Who is your bishop, sir?

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[–]gwlevits2022 0 points1 point2 points 10 days ago (1 child)

Metropolitan Nicholas.

Please let him know one of his subdeacons is defending him and the memory of his predecessor on social media.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 1 point2 points3 points 14 days ago (0 children)

WTF

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 1 point2 points3 points 14 days ago (0 children)

He said he had a crisis of faith BECAUSE of what he was doing/did. You're taking things he said out of context.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 8 points9 points10 points 17 days ago (0 children)

This interlude:

"October 25: Fr. Matthew steals firearms (legally on loan to Elizabeth from her adult children) from the home and later takes one of the children without consent of her mother, later found sleeping in his car with the child.
•
October 26: Fr. Matthew quickly returns the firearms after being informed of the felonious nature of his actions.
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October 28: Elizabeth reports this abusive behavior to Fr. Serge Kotar. In response, she receives a phone call, but no written communication, and no action was taken."

is, like the author of the article said, harrowing.

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[–]ifuckedyourdaddytoo 17 points18 points19 points 17 days ago (13 children)

Same thing that's wrong with the whole Orthodox Church.

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[–]SubstantialFish34 12 points13 points14 points 17 days ago (3 children)

I've seen abuse mishandled in other jurisdictions, never this blatantly.

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[–]ifuckedyourdaddytoo 10 points11 points12 points 17 days ago (0 children)

Blatant or not blatant, they're all shitty.

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[–]RaFive 9 points10 points11 points 17 days ago (1 child)

Cleverly mishandled abuse is worse than incompetently mishandled abuse. To conclude otherwise would be to center optics and aesthetics over bottom line realities. You do NOT want people to be sneaky and talented at keeping abuse away from public outcry.

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[–]Due_Goal_111 3 points4 points5 points 16 days ago (0 children)

Yep, if I had to guess, these problems are just as prevalent in the other jurisdictions, they are simply more competent at covering them up.

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[–]NyssaTheHobbit 5 points6 points7 points 16 days ago (8 children)

Appears to be all the churches, at this point, from low to high church. If some denomination hasn’t been rocked by a “revelation” yet, I figure they will be soon.

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[–]ifuckedyourdaddytoo 3 points4 points5 points 16 days ago (7 children)

Surely you're not suggesting "others do it too" is a reason not to consider leaving Orthodoxy.

Even if all Christian denominations are equally fucked up, there's always non-Christianity.

But that "even if" is itself debatable. A scandal like that can cause a crisis of faith of a severity unique to Orthodoxy, where one's salvation is bound up in the institution. Unlike in other denominations where institutions are de-emphasized.

Ultimately, people act based on their own experiences, and here, in r/exorthodox, we are talking about people acting in response to their experience in Orthodoxy.

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[–]NyssaTheHobbit 4 points5 points6 points 16 days ago (0 children)

Oh no, that’s not my meaning at all! It’s more of a feeling of disgust for all the denominations. What people do with the scandals is up to them.

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[–]Kind-Recording3450 2 points3 points4 points 13 days ago (5 children)

Maybe because I'm not ex-Orthodox, but these deeply tragic events are not something I would consider faith-shaking. Maybe because I am studying at a liberal seminary by the church's standards, but we are learning the history, beauty, and ugliness of how tradition is developed. The church does not hide it. Especially considering that at my school, I can attend classes at Harvard Divinity, and that will be encouraged.

I was in the military for 15 years and saw humans at their worst.

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[–]ifuckedyourdaddytoo 1 point2 points3 points 13 days ago (4 children)

If you are unable to see how a church sex scandal might be cause for a crisis of faith for someone else, I don't know what to tell you. Regardless of your own habits of mind, if you're going to seminary for some pastoral role, empathy would be a useful trait to cultivate more of for yourself.

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[–]Kind-Recording3450 2 points3 points4 points 13 days ago (3 children)

I can see it. Of course I can. But I think it's also wrapped up in the idea that the institution is incorruptible, that we forget the church is full of broken people. However, in general, organizations of any kind are going to have issues of corruption and abuse. Even Christ could not prevent it among the apostles. This is a tremendous and perverted tragedy. That's sadly just part of the course of dealing with people. This is a little off topic, though, but I hear ROCOR is not the best at venting, along with, I don't know if they actually do a psychological evaluation for their prospective clergy. I know in most jurisdictions you do.

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[–]ifuckedyourdaddytoo 1 point2 points3 points 13 days ago (2 children)

wrapped up in the idea that the institution is incorruptible

That's the thing. Orthodox Church believes that the Holy Spirit sustains it, being everywhere present and filling all things. The boast is that the Holy Spirit keeps the Church together in the absence of a pope.

This doctrine sets the bar high so it's a crisis when the Church falls short.

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[–]Kind-Recording3450 1 point2 points3 points 13 days ago (1 child)

So that's the thing, and that's something I deal with. Is it the physical institution? The people in it, or is it a mystical communion? But like the body, the church militant, it's just going to fail over and over again.

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[–]ifuckedyourdaddytoo 1 point2 points3 points 13 days ago (0 children)

The Church could change its doctrine to acknowledge the reality that it's not special, that the clergy are not endewed with some special grace, and that apostolic succession really means all Christians are successors to the apostles, not just a few privileged men in black dresses. Then when these men fail, as they invariably do, it's not as big of a hit spiritually.

But this would require disavowing some of the declarations of some of the councils. Good luck with that.

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[–]Natural-Garage9714 7 points8 points9 points 17 days ago (0 children)

Where to begin?

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[–]Due_Goal_111 5 points6 points7 points 16 days ago (0 children)

The euphemisms make me sick.

"My indiscretions"

"Temptations"

You're talking about molesting your own daughter, you monster.

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[–]bbscrivener 2 points3 points4 points 17 days ago (3 children)

I know sane ROCOR people, but I suspect it’s a legacy going back many decades. ROCOR did purge Holy Transfiguration Monastery over allegations ca. 1987, but then again, that group was Old Calendar Greek.

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[–]Due_Goal_111 4 points5 points6 points 16 days ago (1 child)

Especially these old converts. ROCOR converts are wacko now, I can't imagine how wacko you would have to be to have converted to ROCOR back when they weren't even in communion with anyone. Seraphim Rose levels of wacko.

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[–]queensbeesknees 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (0 children)

The people I knew who chose ROCOR or the Old Calendarists back in the 90s-00s did so out of some kind of  perfectionism or scrupulosity about wanting to be received by re-baptism or wanting to be on the old calendar.

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[–]Oliveoil427 4 points5 points6 points 13 days ago (0 children)

But what about the rest of the sex abusers:

For example:

Christ of the Hills

Monastery

New Sarov

Blanco, TX 78606

The weeping icon was fake and monks were convicted of sex abuse.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040214200945/http://www.pokrov.org/controversial/blanconews.html

Original web site of monastery under the ROCOR:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090723175729/http://www.geocities.com/mabeherec/shrine.html

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[–]Ornery_Economy_6592 2 points3 points4 points 16 days ago* (1 child)

New case in Romania. Priest allegedly had sex with 15 year old girl.

Key highlight: "He is at the disposal of the competent authorities, and until the investigations are concluded, he is suspended from service, with a decision to be made in accordance with the current church legislation upon the completion of the legal proceedings"

"PRESS RELEASE
The Archdiocese of Lower Danube has taken note with deep sorrow of the situation created concerning the accusations brought against priest Aurelian Emil Oprișan from the Foltești Parish, Galați County.He is at the disposal of the competent authorities, and until the investigations are concluded, he is suspended from service, with a decision to be made in accordance with the current church legislation upon the completion of the legal proceedings.Considering this unpleasant situation, we express our Christian sorrow and profound regret for the distress caused.Press Office of the Archdiocese of Lower Danube"

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[–]Oliveoil427 1 point2 points3 points 13 days ago (0 children)

Do you have a web link for this? If you do please send it to Dr. Hermina Nedulescu at Prosopon for their files.

https://www.prosoponhealing.com/reporting

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[–]SubstantialFish34 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (7 children)

u/gwlevits2022 accepted money from Fr. Matthew Williams' nonprofit organization, The Lambertsen Foundation: https://eadiocese.org/news_210712_1

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[–]OldTruthYeller[S] 3 points4 points5 points 15 days ago (1 child)

That explains a lot.

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[–]gwlevits2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 15 days ago (0 children)

It doesn’t explain anything at all, actually.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 4 points5 points6 points 15 days ago (0 children)

Wow, great sleuthing! I KNEW something was awry. I even tried to look him up myself.

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[–]gwlevits2022 0 points1 point2 points 15 days ago (3 children)

I was awarded money based on a translation that I submitted for a “competition.”

It’s also entirely debatable to what extent the organization is “his” at all. I never interacted with him regarding the competition, but with Dr. Xenia Nenchin, and to my knowledge he wasn’t involved in the judges’ panel at all.

Nice try at smearing me, though?

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (2 children)

Oh shit I knew it

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[–]gwlevits2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 15 days ago (1 child)

Knew what? That a guy who works for the diocese and translates services has crossed paths with… a priest of the diocese who runs a church publishing house?

I know all the priests. Stop the presses.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (0 children)

For real, stop the presses

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[–]Smachnoho888 1 point2 points3 points 10 days ago (0 children)

Regarding the the 2 major Romanian Orthodox sex scandals that were in the news lately.

Here are some links you can read for yourselves:

Former bishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church held on sexual abuse charges | Romania Insider

Romanian former bishop convicted of sexual abuse after journalistic investigation | Romania Insider

And this one: from the church itself:

Press release | THE DIOCESE OF HUȘ

Notice the court had to take measures that the abuser did not harass the victims,

Romanian High Court upholds prison sentence for former bishop in sexual abuse case | Romania Insider

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[–]Logical_Fail_8021 -2 points-1 points0 points 14 days ago (0 children)

Why didn’t the mother do anything outside the church? I think the people posting these articles are directly involved with the church somehow. It appears to be deflection on the mother’s lack of action in contacting authorities and laying it all on the church as their responsibility. Something weird is up here. A couple posters are rabidly trying to bring the attention away from what wasn’t done by the one person that should have done something. I think these posters are directly involved in this and are trying to bring traffic to the son in laws website. The mother should have contacted law enforcement immediately instead of months after.

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[–]gwlevits2022 -3 points-2 points-1 points 16 days ago (16 children)

Why would you post this here? For clicks?

1) The audio doesn’t even remotely say what you are alleging.

2) It is policy to wait for a final court verdict; the suspension is sufficient for now and has been made public.

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[–]OldTruthYeller[S] 3 points4 points5 points 16 days ago (5 children)

I see that Fr. Alexander Stepanenko was laicized with no court case. Is the benefit of the doubt only extended to confessed pedophiles?

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[–]Ornery_Economy_6592 1 point2 points3 points 16 days ago (0 children)

Is there any information about that situation? I cannot find anything online. The claim in this thread about an "extramarital affair" being motivation to defrock a priest is a lovely joke.

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[–]gwlevits2022 -3 points-2 points-1 points 16 days ago (2 children)

He carried on an extramarital affair and then ran off to a schismatic jurisdiction. Those aren’t civil offenses, there will be no court case. He was tried in absentia by the Spiritual Court after being given months to respond to the hierarchy.

Whatever else you can say about FMW, he hasn’t been uncommunicative.

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[–]OldTruthYeller[S] 3 points4 points5 points 16 days ago (1 child)

So you can talk your way out of it, especially if the Metropolitan was your seminary roommate. Cool!

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[–]gwlevits2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 16 days ago (0 children)

Huh? Where do you see anybody talking their way out of anything?

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 16 days ago (9 children)

why are you covering for "father" matthew in any sense? just curious

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[–]gwlevits2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 16 days ago (8 children)

Where have you seen me cover for him literally anywhere?

I am defending the hierarchy and how they handled this situation.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 16 days ago (7 children)

but they DIDN'T handle the situation, that's the thing that everyone is talking about here (and elsewhere).

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[–]gwlevits2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 15 days ago (6 children)

Of course they handled it. It is in the process of being handled right now. There is a debate as to whether or not they did a good job, and I am presenting a small defense of how they did so.

How does that equate to defending FMW??

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[–]SubstantialFish34 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (0 children)

They handled it after being forced to, in the most victim-hostile way possible.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (4 children)

I think what I should have said is that this is A CRIME, and should NOT have been, nor ever should a crime be, "handled" by fucking clergy (pardon my language just thinking about the fucking kids and what they had/have to experience. Fuck everyone else(.

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[–]gwlevits2022 comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points 15 days ago (3 children)

Here’s the problem: legally, the victims (or their guardian) need to file a police report and make a statement for the police to get involved. They didn’t do that, and in fact, I know at least one person told Fr. Mark that they didn’t want to! But he insisted they do so, and eventually they did.

This vilifying of the hierarchy is gross and wrong.

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[–]Steve_2050 4 points5 points6 points 15 days ago (0 children)

As u/Itchy_Blackberry_850 pointed out sex abuse of a minor is a crime. If this Fr. Mark (without a surname) knew about it he should have reported it.

Why didn't he? He and anyone else you knew should have reported it.

"In Tennessee, suspected child abuse should be reported to the Tennessee Department of Children's Services (DCS) or local law enforcement. You can report anonymously and you are legally obligated to report if you have reasonable cause to believe a child is being abused or neglected. Here's how you can report:

Online: Use the TN.gov online portal to submit a report.

By Phone: Call the Tennessee Child Abuse Hotline at 1-877-237-0004.

In Person: Contact your local law enforcement agency.

In emergencies: If there's an immediate threat to a child's safety, call 911.

The Tennessee Department of Children's Services (DCS) is the primary agency responsible for investigating reports of child abuse and neglect. They aim to keep children safe while preserving connections with family, school, and community. "

You can even report anonymously.

For the laity in the community/ church who knew or suspected it the same thing. Or they could have contacted SNAP.

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 3 points4 points5 points 15 days ago (0 children)

The abused or their guardian are not the only ones who "need to file a report". What minor, who was/is abused, is going to FILE A FUCKING POLICE REPORT? You appear completely out of touch (as do the other clergy). As someone mentioned below (and as most regular people know) ANYONE who suspects a child is being abused is called to report that abuse. ANY ONE.
The depth of your willful denial of the ACTUAL situation is frightening. Truly

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[–]Itchy_Blackberry_850 2 points3 points4 points 15 days ago (0 children)

The abused or their guardian are not the only ones who "need to file a report". What minor, who was/is abused, is going to FILE A FUCKING POLICE REPORT? You appear completely out of touch (as do the other clergy). As someone mentioned below (and as most regular people know) ANYONE who suspects a child is being abused is called to report that abuse. ANY ONE.
The depth of your willful denial of the ACTUAL situation is frightening. Truly

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